Frank Lunn, the CEO of Kahuna Business Group, reveals the keys to making your business better in every area.
Frank Lunn, business expert and founder of Kahuna accounting, joins us on the podcast this week where we talk everything business. Running a successful business is about constantly adapting and improving in all facets. Revenue growth, operations, leading, and attracting new customers are all ways that are always needing changed and improved on by business leaders. We go over the keys to making your business grow and be better in every facet and area.
Frank attended Illinois State University, majoring in economics with a minor in military science. Commissioned in 1987 as an officer in the U.S. Army, he received specialized military training in logistics, advanced leadership, and strategic planning. He served in the Persian Gulf during Operation Desert Storm receiving a Bronze Star for meritorious service. Lunn founded Kahuna Business Group in 1995 to be a company designed to support entrepreneurs on their epic adventure – the journey of entrepreneurship. Frank is an imperfect, but devoted follower of Jesus Christ. He’s blessed to be married to Lisa, his awesome wife for more than 30-years and a proud father of their three adult children; Frankie, Matthew, and Rachel.
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LINKED IN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frank-lunn-5742648/
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Running a successful business is about constantly adapting and improving in all facets. Revenue growth, operations, leading, and attracting new customers are ways that need to be changed and improved by business leaders. Business expert Frank Lunn joins us on the podcast today. We discuss the keys to making your business better in every area.
In this episode, we have a special guest, Frank Lunn, with me from Kahuna Business Group. Before I talk about Frank, go over to www.IronDeep.com. Check out what we're doing. We have blogs, videos, Men's Awakening retreats, and fulfilling retreats. Check out everything that we got at IronDeep.com. Also, go over to Iron Deep, the YouTube channel, and we have new videos that come out each and every month. Check that out.
Frank is a Founder and Business Owner of Kahuna Business Group. They focus on accounting as their baseline, but they are consultants for business owners and entrepreneurs who want to increase their business valuation. We talk about that a lot in this episode. We ask like, “Have you ever sold a business or bought a business? How do you value your business?”
Not just buying and selling, but what about getting partners to come in, investors to invest in you, and a bank to look at you? How do you increase your valuation? It's not just about income or revenue. It's so many different parts to building up a great valuation, a great book report for the lender, the bank, and a buyer that might want to look at your business. How do you increase the valuation to have a solid business? As we dive in, here is Frank Lunn. How are you doing, Frank?
Excellent. How are you doing, Brett?
I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for being on our show. I've had you on a show before when we did a Simple Wholesaling Episode 157. It's a pleasure. We talked about your book. What was the book again?
It is Carpe Aqualis! Seize the Wave, and Blessings in Adversity is another one that's related to that. That's from an entrepreneur's perspective how we turn lemons into lemonade.
I love that. You have another book, Stack The Logs!
That was the first book that I wrote about years ago when my son was going through some cancer treatment down at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. He is now cancer-free. It was amazing. That was some advice that my dad gave me early on that I hated. It took a while. It's funny how your parents get smarter as you get older. It was something that I could apply to life, and it was a strategy that I used as a framework for entrepreneurship of setting your course, taking action, accepting feedback simply as feedback, and correcting your course as you need to so that you can continue and keep stacking until you achieve what you want to achieve. It's a very oversimplified version, but it served me well.
That's awesome. Frank, like I said, thank you for being on the show. You run the Kahuna Business Group. I've worked with your company for several years now on the bookkeeping accounting side of things. We've talked about business valuation, which we're going to dive into. Give the audience a little taste of who Frank Lunn is.
I've been the husband of one wife, Lisa, for many years now and a father of three adult children who all live in Arizona now. We live in Illinois. I have a huge heart for God, and I'm so grateful that he loves me in spite of myself and is an imperfect follower of Jesus. As an entrepreneur, looking at how we continue to utilize our business as a platform for mission and purpose with a kingdom thought, but at the same time, still be practical and rooted in the world and the economic realities, it's always a challenge. I love to be able to talk with other entrepreneurs of faith and be able to navigate that because there are no clean lines for it. There are different thoughts, attitudes, and approaches. It's exciting to learn together.
You've been an entrepreneur and business owner for several years now. What was your journey? When did that start for you?
I was in the First Gulf War, which ended in the early '90s. I started this business in 1995. I had a day job that I kept, and I would come in at 4:00 in the morning, I had a partner, I would do the accounting and the bookkeeping, I'd do my day job, and then come back in the evenings. It was pretty brutal for a while. We officially started this in 1995, and it was initially as a credit card community merchant service. I knew the last project that I was in within the convenience store industry was about ATMs.
I knew that ATMs were going to start to be able to be available away from banks. We started another company I was kidding with our lawyer, and I said, “If this ATM thing works out, it could be the big kahuna.” That's how the Kahuna name came about. It was a joke at first, but we'd go to these trade shows and learn. Everything was like, “It's the Kahuna guys from Bloomington, Illinois. How did that work out?”
It was a good representation of figuring out what everybody else was doing and then doing something a little bit different. That's served us well. We sold that business, had a pretty nice exit in 2012, and then realized how many mistakes I made along the way on this entrepreneurial journey. I realized I don't have any love for accounting per se, but I've learned how to love accounting as an opportunity for guidance for entrepreneurs that we just didn't know we didn't know.
Same thing with value. I left millions of dollars on the table. It was still a great exit, don't get me wrong. I'm very blessed by it, but it should have been considerably more. I just didn't know. When you're selling a business, whether it's by choice or by somebody else's circumstances, you're an amateur. Even though we're a pro at business and entrepreneurship, let's get real. How many times are you actually selling a business? We're an amateur and we're across the table from pros. There are so many lessons that I look back on now. I'm like, “How did I not know that?” As entrepreneurs, we're constantly putting ourselves out there above our level of competence, and we have to learn how to adapt and take those opportunities to learn what we need to get to that next level.
I've been a business owner for several years now, but I've never sold a business. I wouldn't know how to go about that or how to value my business. I know I've been working with you, and you guys have helped me a little bit with that. I've worked with you as far as the bookkeeping and accounting side, and that's a side of your business, but it's not all of Kahuna. Take us in, why do you start there? Why should other business owners listen to you and this? Why should they dig in more and be more intentional about their accounting and their books?
It's a great question because I never had any great love for accounting. Like most business owner visionaries, I was about marketing, relationship-building, and business development. At the time, I had a CFO, and I abdicated a lot of things that I didn't think were that important, but they were. In the strategy of growing a business, there are five different components of it. There's their growth your revenue, the cashflow, the profits, and the value of your business that you could exchange at some point for the future with somebody else. You're going to exit at some point, whether it's this way or this way. Most of us don't think about that. Ultimately, building wealth. As entrepreneurs, there are two ways of building wealth.
It's not binary. It's not either this or that. It's I'm building money inside the business. I'm taking it out in either salary or compensation or I'm going to build and increase the value of this asset that someday I will exchange for cash capital or some other value exchange. That's the foundation of my future wealth. I didn't think about any of that. In this business that we had in the ATM industry, we were doing about $22 million to $23 million in revenue annually. I thought, “This is great. I might be even smart. No, I'm not smart.”
To do a business like that, you take some smarts.
There was some luck in that, and I had a great team. We did a lot to help the people that we served, which is the foundation of our mantra that we achieve our victories through the victories of those we serve. We've always been in a business-to-business environment looking to serve other business owners and entrepreneurs. At the time, it was in this one niche within the ATM industry. I didn't know and understand so much about what was value. I didn't have a valuation at the time. Most valuations were $10,000 to $15,000. It was only after something happened. Once we were down the road where we had to sell because our biggest client decided they wanted to sell, and it was going to create an issue if we didn't go along with it, they said, “We needed to do a valuation.”
Once we had a value, that was what it was, but we couldn't do anything about it. Had we known or had we had some indication of the strategic value of our business, there are so many things we would've done differently in the planning. That's what I want to share and impart with other entrepreneurs because so much has changed in the last couple of years. The technologies changed. The methodologies have changed, and the focus on the perspective and benefit of the entrepreneur has changed.
We're building a category that doesn't exist, which is strategic business value for entrepreneurs. Looking at the value of your business, not just for some future exit, but it is currency now, currency for what you can do with that whether it's bringing partners on or partners moving to the next level, or whether it's capital and cash or a number of things. If you don't understand the value of your business, you're missing out on a lot of what you can do to maximize not only your income but certainly the foundation for your future wealth.
What are some of the components of valuing your business? A lot of times, you might google, “How do you value my business?” People might say, “It's 3X times your revenue,” or something like that. They're like, “My business is worth $5 million.” There's a lot more that goes into it.
Not to be trite, but the true value of a business is what somebody else is willing to either pay you for it, loan against it, or whatever that value exchange is. You're right. There are a lot of heuristics or rules of thumb whether it's a multiple of what they call SDE or Seller's Discretionary Earnings, which is your income or EBITDA, Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization, which is another fancy word for what's your profit that you're taking home.
The biggest thing that I learned the hard way is there's a level, and it's about $1 million in revenue. Businesses that are below $1 million in revenue get measured one way. It's not a great measure. It is that measure of profits and sellers' discretionary income. Depending on what industry you're in and what's called your NAICS code or your SIC code, which is about your industry category, above that million, then you start to look at multiples of revenue.
It starts to become a little bit of a geometric equation. If you don't know, you might have the wrong category. A lot of people start a business in one area, and then they start to move, shift, or pivot, and they're still classified as something different from what they're doing. That's going to dramatically affect the value of your business. Not knowing the value of your business used to be difficult to do, but now it's so easy to do that and not knowing puts you at a strategic disadvantage.
It's so important to build that into your strategy now to understand what the value of your business is. There are three things. There are the good, bad, and ugly valuations that you can get without it being super complex, expensive, or anything like that. It's like a sports physical to me versus the Mayo Clinic. Sometimes you just need a sports physical to know, “What's my general health? I don't need to know all of the blood and everything to the nth degree. I just need to know if I’m okay to start doing this exercise. If I want to lose weight, or if I want to get healthier, what do I need to do?” versus the Mayo Clinic. Sometimes you need the Mayo Clinic, but if you don't, you're missing out.
The strategic part, which is to me like the sports physical is, what's the enterprise value of your business on paper? It is looking at some trends, your tax returns, the industry that you're in, and your geography. It's like Zillow. Zillow doesn't give you the calibrated value of a house as if you had an appraiser come in. If you're going to start buying and working in a neighborhood and looking for certain house values, you can use Zillow and open records and some other things and come close to what the value should be or value ranges. That strategic understanding of value, that's what we want to help other entrepreneurs do in their own business. The enterprise value, then there's the asset value, which is if you sold everything and what's that worth on paper, but it misses out on a lot of cool things.
There's that last part, which is liquidation. If you're pushing a corner and you've got to sell everything, it's the fire sale. Those are the good, bad, and ugly of values. It's not that you're going to do something with that immediately, but it's so you know, and understand more importantly what the magnifiers and multipliers of your value are. If your value is $1 million now but you want to exit someday and you want it to be at $10 million, what are the things that you can do that are going to magnify and multiply the 80/20 levers to add to your strategy so that you're doing things that are going to increase value?
On the other hand, what are the things that you want to avoid so that you're not diminishing, detracting, or possibly even destroying wealth or the value of your business because of things that you probably don't know? In our case at the time, we had one client who was more than 15% of our business. That was what drove our value down. It cost $3 million or $4 million in aggregate because of that one thing that we didn't know.
A lot of our focus is empowering exponential entrepreneurship and helping entrepreneurs who are like us who are out driving their headlights and packing the parachute on the way down. We don't know what we don't know, but we're not afraid to get out there. Sometimes we miss and don't know what we don't know. It sure would be nice to have a little bit of understanding so that we can align and calibrate our accounting to be able to achieve what's most important to us.
That's a subjective thing, whether it’s I want to amass a huge amount of value for an exchange someday in the future or I want to take a lot of money out of the business to do things now and then invest in other things like real estate, cryptocurrency, or stock exchange, that's subjective. If you don't know what the choices or alternatives are, it's hard to plan for that.
Thanks for sharing. What are 2 or 3 ways that someone can immediately increase their value? What are some of those top things that if they do a couple of these little shifts in their business, it can increase their value?
The first thing is if you have the ability to drive and get your revenue to that $1 million mark or better. Below that, it's not as exciting for an outside person. The other part is looking at the business through the eyes of an acquirer. There are two types of buyers. There's an economic and strategic buyer. Whether you're thinking about exit now or at some point in the future, it's still worth thinking about this because an economic buyer's going to buy for what is right on the table and what they can see your earnings. It could be something that they want to roll your business into theirs.
A strategic buyer is going to be looking at things like your branding, your systems, and your specific key client relationships. There may be other things that you just don't know have value. If you don't think about those things outside of the normal economics of your cashflow and profitability, then you're going to miss out on ways to add value to your business.
The other thing that's important is to get yourself out of the business. Be a business owner, not a business operator as soon as possible. If the business revolves around you, then what value is it if somebody else wants to acquire it? Those are some of the things that we want to help business owners and entrepreneurs think about. Even if an exit is 5, 10, or 15 years down the road, it doesn't matter. It's still worth it because you're selling your business, whether you realize it or not, either to somebody else or to yourself. Wouldn't you want to own a great quality business that doesn't revolve around you? It just makes cash, it's like a goose that lays the golden eggs. Take care of that goose. Goose is your friend.
That's right. You said, “Get yourself out of the business.” Isn't that everybody's dream? Every entrepreneur that's reading this, “That sounds great. I'd love to get myself out of the business.” You said, “This isn't just because you want freedom, but it dramatically increases the value of your business.” That's awesome. The problem is that most owners are the drivers of their business. Isn't that what you're seeing? Most owners are the ones making all the big decisions and calling all the shots. They're the ones working 80 hours a week driving.
It's a challenge, but if you think about how you own the business and then look for other ways to add value through people who can operate the business and candidly better than you, that's a challenge. We always feel like, “I've developed this level of competence and we have too much confidence in our own competence.” Instead of looking at and saying, “How can we utilize what we've learned to make somebody else more equipped or better equipped than we are and not feel threatened?” Sometimes that control is like, “I want to control everything.” That misses out on, as an entrepreneur, being able to create an enterprise and have other people build their value and their wealth through the expansion of that enterprise, your dream, or your vision.
That, to me, is the exciting next level. It's like parenting. When you have a little child, you've got to take care of it, and they revolve everything around you. At some point, as they grow older and have their own autonomy, then you can feel the pride that, “I was part of that.” Now they're driving it and responsible. It's a whole different level. We have to have that vision upfront, “I want to be involved at the operating level only as long as I need to. The faster that I can equip or empower other people to take on those roles, that's the only way that I'm going to achieve exponential.” That was a word you and I were discussing earlier that has taken on some different significance to me now.
I want to talk about the word exponential of what that means to you. You talked about this revenue for businesses under $1 million. My entrepreneur wheels always start turning. Other people did this. I've never bought or sold a business. I don't know how that works, and I don't think a lot of business owners do. There are some people that play in that, and some people are like, “It's too complicated. I don't understand it.”
If you start to learn the valuation of a business, could you go in and buy a business that is under $1 million and then take it to the next level and then sell it? A lot of people do that. That's a great model because, to increase these valuations if you learn how to do it, it could be a great business model in and of itself. You go in, increase the valuation of a business over 2 or 3 years, and then that’s it. Do you see people doing that?
Absolutely. That's a great point because what you do is you look at all the verticals that are adjacent to what you do and think, “We always need a cleaning company, a construction, or we always need certain elements.” One of the challenges that all these companies have is, “How do I find customers or clients?” If you have a model where it's like, “We always know we have this,” maybe we could bring in another company into the family, and it runs on its own, but it comes in and we can find the efficiencies because maybe we don't need another general manager. We just need an onsite manager or some other things.
Where can we find efficiencies, whether it's the accounting or the structure? It makes sense to look at what other things you utilize now as vendors or components that are ancillary, adjacent, or parallel that are aligned with your business and your vision that you could acquire at a discount, but still a fair and equitable value. The moment that you take and bring them into your operations, you're going to find efficiencies and you're going to be able to make that value increase right away.
Sometimes it's even the cash flow. It's very similar a lot to what you're doing in this other business and looking at, “How could I use the cashflow of this business to be able to pay for it and to make it an exit that's a good win for the person who's looking to exit?” We don't know what the reasons could be. I thought I was going to hand this business over to my kids and they don't want to be in it or something has changed.
A lot of times, it is thinking about it from, “How can I add value to the person who might be stuck?” It's not about just, “How we get it cheap? How do we negotiate hard and get that?” Sometimes, it's, “I want to pay you more than it's worth, but I want to make sure that the value's going to come back. You're going to help me do financing in a way that I couldn't do on my own,” or, “You're going to stay with the business. If we can take it to a higher level together, we'll share in that.”
There are a lot of different ways of creativity that I don't think existed years ago because the technology didn't exist, especially with accounting. That's one of the things now that we see because the accounting is so fragmented. The bookkeeping, the accounts receivable, the accounts payable, the payroll, and all these different pieces are hard to manage together in a way, but at the same time, it's much easier because you're not having to wait like we used to have to wait 40 days after the month ended until we know how we did. It's like, “You died three months ago. We just didn't tell you.”
What are some modern tools that people can use? I know Kahuna has some tools to help with valuation. Talk about that a little bit, like resources and tools.
There are a lot of good simple ways like the heuristics and the rules of thumb that you can look at for your industry. It does depend on your industry and geography, whether you're a brick and mortar or you're across the country. We've started focusing on what we call a discovery value assessment. We've got one that's a little bit more premium, and we've got some that are less than $600 with a couple of years of tax returns and a little bit of understanding from the owner's perspective of, “Is this industry growing or is it declining? What's the geography?”
There are a few simple things that we can do to provide that business owner with a good understanding of that good, bad, and ugly approach so that you can then understand the enterprise, the asset, and the liquidation value. What's more important is to understand within your business or your industry what big doors move on small hinges. What are the little things in your industry-specific that you can magnify and multiply value and watch out for so you don't diminish, devalue, or destroy? Understanding where you are, and whether you want to build it into your strategy now doesn't matter, but just understanding that and putting it in your hip pocket, that's valuable. You want to take it to the next level and say, “Now how do we start to set targets?”
Now we're at, let's say, $1 million. We want to be worth $5 million in the next 2 to 3 years. What would we have to do how would that look? Gamify it. Those are the things that we're trying to help regular entrepreneurs who have that vision and ambition that are a little bit off from normal proprietors and normal business owners that are looking for incremental. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what most businesses in America are the incremental, “I know what I want to do and I just want to improve a little bit each year.” That's fantastic.
There are the Steve Jobs or the crazy ones that have a vision that exceeds our grasp and we don't have any real idea how we're going to do it, but we know doggone we're going to do it, and we'll figure it out together. Those are the entrepreneurs that we want to help utilize value as part of their guidance system. Also, accounting is a dynamic guidance system. It's not just past, “How did we do a couple of months ago?” Like a GPS, “This is our target.” How do you accept feedback and correct course because the economy changes other things? You know within the value of your business that your business may be improving month over month, but if the economy tanks, then the value is diminished because that's part of what makes up at least the academic value, which now, all we're using it for is just feedback.
What do I do with this? I can't change the macroeconomic trends of the United States, but we can make sure that we're doing what we need to within growth, profitability, and cashflow in our own industry. The things that we can control, it's like the entrepreneurial's version of the Serenity Prayer. It is controlling what we can control, giving the rest to God, and just doing the best we can with what we have. It's important to understand where we are, where we're going, and what the possibilities and options are.
You guys use some amazing technology and tools to help small businesses give that valuation. When I saw Forbes evaluated this big business for a billion dollars, I was like, “How do they get that?” You use some of that same stuff just for smaller businesses. Let's get back to that word, exponential. That's something that's been in your heart. It's been on your mind. Talk about that. Why has that been speaking to you so much, this word exponential, when it comes to business and freedom time?
Like you as an entrepreneur, we tend to think about life in that JHA curve and the exponential, which is, from the academic version, an increase with the rate of increase increasing. It's like, “I have to get my head around that.” That's what creates the JHA curve that we all get excited about. Thinking about growth, revenue, and profitability as exponential, is a good baseline. As we start to think more, especially from a faith perspective, and look at, “What do I really want to be exponential in my life?” I want an exponential marriage. I want to have an exponential opportunity to reach others for Christ. I want to have an exponential opportunity for freedom or contribution or to be able to do things that are beyond money.
Thinking about my business or my entrepreneurial endeavor as a platform to achieve exponential in what's important to me, whether it's time freedom, contribution, planting a church, or doing other things, it's different for everybody. It's so important to express and understand it because we weren't called for small things when we were all called for a purpose. As entrepreneurs, we were called to be able to do more than just make money and tithe or make money and, hopefully, have something that people remember us by. They call it legacy.
For me, the challenge and the rub of all of this entrepreneurship is, “What am I doing and what does God want me to do? What do I think God wants me to do?” There's always that dichotomy and the challenge of the “Many are the plans of a man's heart, but it's the Lord's purpose that prevails,” Proverbs 19:21. There's no clear answer to that. I love working with other entrepreneurs, especially entrepreneurs of faith because we all wrestle with that in different ways. Exponential, to me, means God has gifted me with this life, with my skills, talents, and abilities, and whatever they are, whether they're meager or there's more to it. How do I then utilize those to be able to bless God or to be able to improve and expand the kingdom?
That, to me, is what I see as the value of exponential. It's something I'm constantly exploring and thinking about. It's taken on a different viewpoint than that one-dimensional, “It's exponential growth.” Don't get me wrong. That's okay. I like that. Somebody told me one time that the best way to help the poor is to not be one. That's true. I've had some ups and downs. I joke and it’s probably not too far of a joke, “I lost $1 million before I ever made $1 million.” As entrepreneurs, it's important that we build a platform that we can then utilize in a way that honors God and builds the kingdom. Sometimes that happens. In the last few years, it happens sometimes in failure.
People see us and things are going great, but when we make a wrong turn at Albuquerque, as Bugs Bunny would say, the bottom falls out. We're trying to struggle for survival. How do we still honor God in that? Sometimes we don't like those opportunities as much, but in the dark recesses of the entrepreneurial, “I'm a fake. Nobody's going to ever work with me. I'm scared. I don't know what to do,” sometimes the best opportunity is to just honor God and say, “I trust you. Show me. Give me wisdom and discernment.” It's hard for me to sometimes ever quiet enough that you can listen to God. That's the challenge. That exponential turn inward to say, “How does God utilize me? How does God utilize Brett and this show, or these relationships?” that's what's exciting because we don't know, but the Lord does.
I love your verbiage on using your business as a platform for your mission. If all the business owners are out there reading, we can all unite together and use our businesses for good and for the glory of God. We can make a dent in the darkness of the world. There's so much division. We can come and unite together for a purpose. Honestly, that's why I'm speaking into business owner men's lives. That's the next wave of the kingdom just coming through this platform. I love your heart on that. Can our businesses make us better men and women? You talked about marriages. That's awesome. I've seen a lot of it go the other way where we sacrifice things for our business.
Adding to that, how do we develop exponential humility, humbleness, and dare I even say meekness? We don't think of meek from a biblical perspective in the same way that the world does sometimes. As the world loudly honors us, how do we utilize that to be exponentially humble or use that to glorify him rather than ourselves? That's hard. We have this need to be recognized and patted on the back, pat on the head, and, “You've done great.” I'd be lying if I said that that's not important.
To be able to look at and eventually hear the words, “Well done, good, and faithful servant,” how do we keep that focus? That's what I love about this show and iron sharpening iron because it is so hard. I screw up so much. I'm off course way more than I'm on course. It is to know and have accountability partners who say, “Frank, you're okay, but you're flawed, but I love you anyway. How do we do this journey together?” He never called us to be perfect. He just called us.
He called us to follow with all of our imperfections. Thank you for talking about this show. That's why we're going down this road. We all need each other, guys, if we dig down deeper and into our own purpose, into our own mission, and use our business platform. You're right. Anytime I see someone else lifted up or glorified, I'm like, “Why can't that be me?” There's some human instinct that's like, “Why can't I be as good as that guy?” That's awesome. Frank, if they're interested more about business valuations, Kahuna, where can they go?
I would say go to www.KahunaAccounting.com. We have other businesses within Kahuna that we're focused on, but accounting is the cornerstone from which everything else can be built. Accounting tells the story. It's not about accounting, the mechanics, or the methodology of accounting or any software. Accounting is simply a way of aligning, calibrating, and coordinating your vision, mission, goals, and ambition as an entrepreneur. When you can do that through your accounting looking forward, not just looking back, then you have a dynamic guidance system to be able to achieve what's most important to you.
As entrepreneurs, what we're looking for is compression. We have no doubt. That confidence that we have, we will achieve. We've got the grit, tenacity, and determination. We will achieve it. It's just, do we want to take a long way, hard way, and bump our butt on the lily pads, or do we want to find a level of compression to be able to expand and express that sooner rather than later? That's the goal that we want to be able to help entrepreneurs with their accounting. It's not about the accounting, the debits and credits, or any of those things, but as a forward-looking guidance system to be able to achieve your entrepreneurial vision, whether that's exponential or some variation of that.
Guys, go over to Kahuna Accounting. Check out Frank's valuation system and get in touch with Frank and his team over there at Kahuna. Frank, it's been awesome. Thanks for being on the show.
My pleasure. Thank you and blessings to you, Brett, for all that you're doing.
Thank you.
