Nate Larkin was a good intentioned pastor and husband. But his secret sexual addiction was destroying him and his marriage.
Nate Larkin was a good intentioned pastor and husband. But his secret sexual addiction was destroying him and his marriage.
At first, it was just pornography and masturbation, and Nate tried to justify its innocence, but he realized that just primed him for deeper darker acts of sexual sin.
Nate's wife finally caught him and was about to end the marriage. That crisis that exposed Nate was the best thing to happen to him. Nate finally found out where and how to find help in his sexual addiction recovery. Nate learned what true intimacy was and how to live a healthy life.
Listen as Nate shares with Brett about his sexually broken journey that led him to a much fuller life of richness and intimacy.
BRETT: Hey this is Brett Snodgrass with another episode of The Iron Deep Podcast. I have Nate Larkin on the podcast with me today. What's going on Nate?
NATE: Oh hey! It's good to see you. Good I've been looking forward to this conversation, Brett.
BRETT: Yes yes! Me too. Me too. And uh, if you guys don't know, Nate Larkin, he is the founder of Samson Society. He's the author of "Samson and the Pirate Monks," calling men to authentic Brotherhood, which we love. We're going to dig into that, and we're going to talk about just your story, Nate. And really, a story of recovery. We're going to be talking about addiction today a little bit, guys. So hold, you know, put your seat belts on for that. We're gonna be talking about sexual sanity and a healthy sexuality in men's lives and what does that look like as Samson Society really has gotten uh really about recovery and... start off just with your story Nate. And I think that's where I want to start. And I watched a video of you... "I am Second." Which is a video series about... about your story of recovery. But can you just share with our audience. Take yourself back. I mean, this is quite a few years in the 90s, I believe. Started maybe the turning point for you.
NATE: Yeah. Yeah, recovery started in 1998 for me. Addiction started much earlier. I'm coming to understand really that the the soil was prepared for that addiction Behavior very very early in my life so I grew up in a Christian home and Dad actually was a preacher I grew up in church uh and I was a good kid and good at doing Church got a lot of affirmation for performing in church uh but it was also a perfectionistic upbringing so that when I screwed up the penalties were were were strong so I learned to hide the screw-ups uh we didn't talk about foreign or sex ever at home or at church that in itself sent a very strong message that that's not something to be talked about so when I encountered porn for the first time around the age of 10 shortly after my mother died by Suicide um wow I was very vulnerable of course uh I knew I couldn't tell anybody I had to handle that I knew it was bad and I had to handle it on my own uh all through adolescence I went through the typical cycles of binging and purging a lot of guilt a lot of Shame a lot of secret repentance and surrender lot of trips to the altar a lot of promises to do better I kept turning over new leaves uh and that continued on into college what I comforted myself with was the knowledge that as soon as I met the perfect girl and got married the problem would disappear what I didn't understand was that by then porn and masturbation had become my primary distress management strategy so whenever I was in distress that's what I went to and I did meet the perfect girl and we did get married the day I graduated from college uh and it was wonderful but as it turns out marriage is stressful life is stressful marriage didn't make the stress go away so it wasn't too long after the honeymoon that the um that the behavior reappeared what I told myself then in order to live with myself was that porn was probably my best defense against infidelity I love my wife I meant it when I promised to be faithful to her only you know so long as we both shall live um and I thought that uh you know sex or or porn actually wasn't I I wasn't engaging with real people I didn't care about these people uh I even told myself that I was being considerate by using porn just taking care of my sexual needs without bothering my wife especially after life got busy with kids and you know so uh I I just didn't let her know how considerate I was being what I didn't know was that at this time porn porn was now really programming me grooming me setting me up for the next step it was though I was in a simulator day after day and it took a few years it took quite a few years so I actually went into the ministry so now I'm a pastor we've got three kids and uh and ironically on a Christmas Eve I'm on my way to lead a candlelight service when I pull over to offer a woman a ride out of the rain unaware of what she's up to until she's in the car and propositioning me and that's when the programming kicked in I'd seen some version of that scenario countless times in porn uh and it was the the the the switch flipped I dissociated and and coming back to Consciousness was just miserable after that experience I just felt horrible and the hor and the worst part of it was this gnawing sense that now that I'd crossed the line there was no way back I would do it again and uh I I promised I wouldn't I prayed I wouldn't uh and I didn't write away but then I did uh and did it again and again the the the um the self-hatred the loathing and the desperation that came I just despised my own hypocrisy I couldn't live with myself and I was terrified of being caught and exposed that was back in the 90s when famous preachers were all over the news with sex scandals of one kind or another and you know I wasn't famous but I was building a good reputation in South Florida which is where we lived at the time and I just knew that when they caught me I'd make the news and that was just too awful a prospect to even contemplate so at age 30 uh I quit the ministry uh uh retired early pled burnout my wife was actually thank God supportive I think she was relieved I think she wondered whether maybe it was the ministry that was the cause of this growing emotional distance between us and my you know just my absence my emotional absence uh I went into business where I had the great Misfortune to succeed so now uh I've got money more money than I'd ever had in the Ministry and even less accountability I was still active in church still love God still very active in church and I could I was one person in church I just couldn't keep that person uh breathing for too long outside the building I was running two lives and what followed was a very dark Dozen Years that was in South Florida 1998 we made the move to Tennessee and it was shortly after that move that my wife first caught me uh on the internet looking at porn late at night and shortly after that discovered a condom on the floor in the bathroom that I couldn't quite explain and that's when she said the words that saved my life she sat me down on the edge of our bed and she said I'm done she said I still love you but I don't like you I don't trust you I don't respect you I don't think you can ever change those are the words that gave me the gift of desperation that that's what finally got me out of my private you know my desperate search for a private solution to my private problem right and uh and I I found help the first help I found was in a 12-step recovery for sex addicts in the basement of a church in the middle of the week while all the good people were gone uh I hated it I hated going at the same time though I loved it I found myself you know in a circle with a bunch of messed up people and and it was the safest place I'd ever been I've never heard honesty like that in my life ever uh and uh it was there where I didn't have to pretend where my personas were not welcome a place that was dedicated to the truth and a place that believed although it was not a Christian group that ironically actually helped me to be deprived temporarily of my religious pedigree my religious language my pad answers that weren't working anyway H it was there in that period actually that uh God became much more real to me uh uh the Bible changed as I dropped my filters uh I began to see things I'd never seen before the gospel became really sweet and we were fortunate at that time also to land in a very good grace-based gospel teaching Church uh and my wife found help uh in a a safe Bible study it was a it was I'll tell you those early years were rough for both of us but uh we survived we more than survived marriage got a whole lot better and it continues to improve we're 25 years now in recovery wow and 20 years into the Samson Society it was it was uh in 200 four actually uh that uh at the suggestion of my wife by that point I'd lost enough shame that I had told people about my story a few selected people among them my pastor and had given him my phone number to give to anybody he thought I could help I was walking with about a dozen guys at that point doing for them what my sponsor had done with me my sponsors just walking just walking together that's all uh at my wife's suggestion we started the Samson Society hoping to integrate this recovery experience with our Christian Heritage and our Christian language uh be able to put it all together and uh it grew very quickly we got very excited and uh 2007 put out a book Samson and the pirate monks the first half of that is Memoir kind of my story it also includes the stories of about a dozen other guys uh and the second half Field Manual hoping to encourage other guys to do something like what we were doing since then more than 600 local meetings of the Samson Society have started those meetings did have a high mortality rate especially during covid but fortunately shortly before the pandemic hit we made the step of start online meetings M uh so now uh uh there are meetings in you know multiple meetings about a 100 meetings a week meetings in seven languages and guys around the world connecting wow wow well thanks Nate I know uh you know you share your story I know you've shared your story with with audiences men's Retreats men's groups and Samson Society uh so again yeah hundreds of groups worldwide uh really just touching so many lives and uh I might ask just some deeper types of questions obviously you reached a point of desperation uh your wife sitting you down I am done um I've heard certain stories of getting caught I am done
um what what do you do men have to reach that point of desperation a rock bottom desperation a getting caught you know to to their lowest point losing everything that they have um what have you yeah they don't have to however the power of denial is so strong and our pride and self-sufficiency and shame are so strong that for most of us it does take a crisis of some kind uh but it's important when the crisis comes that we there's an option there's a place we can go yeah I could have found help much earlier it just help wasn't available there was no place for me to go uh once the crisis hits and it might be that a guy crosses a line he told himself he'd never cross and it's that's the wakeup call right or uh you know something else for a moment he's shaken awake out of his revery the denial there's there's a window of opportunity that opens yeah what my experience is that window doesn't stay open for very long if a guy's going to go for help he needs to go fairly quickly we have a newcomer meeting at the Samson Society uh online every day uh uh what we find is and you know roughly you know a dozen guys or more sign up every day if the guy signs up for a meeting that day or the next day the odds are really good he's going to make it if he SC signs up for a meeting that happen several days from now the odds that he's going to get there decline because there's a part of us that's there's this voice that starts up the minute we decide to go for help there's this voice in the back of the head that says you know you got this it's not that bad you learned your lesson that's what I told myself so many times you learned it that's it you've got it now that's the last time now you can do it it's it's humiliating it's frightening to go for help it's scary to even face how um how bad things have gotten uh so the crisis when it comes however it comes is a blessing I tell guys all the time I love doing doing intake and taking guys on their first walk if I can meet them here or talk with them in a newcomer meeting and what I tell them is that what feels like right now the worst day of your life may very well turn out to be in retrospect the best day of your life amen this is where life can start for you yeah I love that you mentioned um pornography as the simulator and it took you down a path of of whatever you call it the real thing the real deal whatever but can you talk to us about a little bit more about simulator versus in in actuality I mean but really obviously in a Biblical point that that you know same thing but sure it really is yeah and you know porn these days is cited as a factor in about 60% of divorces um and and we should not normalize porn it is not healthy it is not helpful and and my uh we did not bring porn into our marriage but I know couples that have tried that option and and uh I strongly discourage it because it does not lead to real connection person to person right what porn offers is um an imaginary connection with a virtual person uh which if we if we accept it begins at that moment to impair our ability to form and sustain a real relationship with an actual person it feels safe if we're emotionally wounded and lonely it feels safe. There's no rejection. You can't get turned down by pornography anymore than you're going to be turned down by a prostitute if you got the money. She's got the time, but there's no connection. There's no actual connect. It does not meet that deep spiritual emotional need that we all have um but it's a it is porn is powerful and modern porn you know I got started on still images you know Playboy magazine that kind of stuff I didn't see hard cor porn in uh film form this was even before video uh until I was a married man the kind of stuff any unsupervised six-year-old can find today you know in two minutes on the Internet it's everywhere I didn't realize how much more powerful those moving images are than still images this film video It's actually an immersive experience it's it bypasses the higher portions of the brain where critical thinking takes place and moral judgments are made it stimulates a part of the brain that cannot distinguish between virtual experience and actual experience right right right uh so it's it is uh it's not something that we can dabble with at arms length and walk away unarmed it affects
us I heard one time that you I think you even mentioned this the fear of rejection you know we have this false sense of safety with with pornography and yeah do and do you think that a lot of men obviously you know statistics are staggering even with with churchgoing Christian yeah you know faith believing men um and the fear of rejection is that like one of the main things that men go to because they could partake with if they're married obviously with their wife but yeah right can you talk about that exactly yeah it it Springs from and it feeds an intimacy disorder the truth is that most of us I mean I'm very poor at making emotional connections and and and it it begins with attachment in early childhood our experiences there our deep wiring limbic wiring that's telling us uh whether or not a situation or a relationship is safe it's one thing to thinking knowing that I'm loved is not the same as feeling I'm loved knowing I'm safe is not the same as feeling I'm safe interesting uh right so this is really irrational behavior that we're engaging in for nonrational reasons and very often as Christians and we buy a book especially no I'm a thinker I'm a good Presbyterian I I going I want to think my way out of this dilemma but I'm trying to solve an irrational nonrational Problem by rational means and it just does not work I used to say you can't rationalize with an irrational person right right right and all of us have an irrational part of the brain right right in a tug-of-war between the heart and the head head the heart always wins very often that decision to do the self-destructive thing is made before we're even consciously aware it's been made that's a limic decision that was a lightening fast response to what was perceived on an emotional level as a dangerous situation
BRETT: So let's get back with the Samson Society. So you're talking about just this emotional level you go to this group you feel safe in this particular group for the first time ever to be honest to to to and you hated it but you loved it um obviously you've created these groups now um I think even before the show you know and I've heard you say it a couple times just connection connection is the remedy to addiction so can you talk to us about that what it did for you and it's what what is doing for these other men
NATE: One of the great benefits of these groups is that in uh a safe environment with an honest conversation that's you know around a structure safe structure we in in experimenting with vulnerability becoming progressively more transparent what we're learning and what we're experiencing is nonsexual intimacy I didn't even have a have a category for nonsexual intimacy and our culture doesn't have much of a Cate category for it when we talk about being intimate if a guy says he's been intimate with his wife we assume that that meant they had sex right it is possible very possible to have sex without being intimate Yeah Yeah from experiences during active addiction of of with my wife I I think I that for a long time I was using her sexually and my and what I suspect is she felt it for sure it was an impersonal transactional thing uh and and our culture has really commodified sex and made it a performance oh it's so anyway but to learn nonsexual intimacy to learn how to connect emotionally and then to be able to bring that into the home and into the bedroom where I don't always have to be swinging for the fences Ally and I these days have found that there's something very very satisfying just about being together cuddling is wonderful it it doesn't have to always progress to uh you know to climax to be satisfying. mhmh And let's get realistic, both of us are getting older, but we're also getting closer. We're closer today than we've ever been.
BRETT: No I love that. I love the nonsexual intimacy. And... just kind of building that emotional connection. So obviously there's one way with your... with your wife, but... obviously you talk the same way about other men. Other Brotherhood. Authentic Brotherhood, right?
NATE: Yeah, and this can... this can come into play for guys. And I have a great deal of sympathy and respect for guys, Christian guys, who battle an unwanted same-sex attraction. The truth is we all have same-sex needs. It's just for some of us, those needs have been sexualized. For those guys to be able to be in a room where the sexual connection is off the table, and we can learn nonsexual intimacy, that is for some of these guys a brand new experience, right?
BRETTl Wow! I love that. Well that's awesome. Well thanks... again. Let's... let's just... you talk about Samson and the Pirate Monk. I know we talked about this before the show but uh give us your take on the pirate monk that's your mascot your logo um you have a podcast.
NATE: yeah yeah yeah our logo is a monk with an eye patch and here's how it came about all we're a Christian group we all love God and we all love to you know try do our best to do the things that please God that's very sincere but all of us also have a pirate part yeah that uh has just done some wild and sometimes wicked things historically what most of us have done is we've tried to kill the pirate and be the Monk and we have found uh that no matter how many times we we you know make that pirate walk the plank he always survives and he comes back the truth is we've been operating under the assumption that the monk is all good in the pirate it's all bad which is not true the monk is good in a lot of ways but he also tends toward you know self-righteousness and isolation and he has this sense of entitlement and thinks of himself as better than other people right um and the pirate is bad there's no doubt about it he's a scoundrel but he's not all bad he doesn't pretend to be anything other than a scoundrel so he has that going for him he does have courage and a sense of adventure and he takes risks and he knows how to be with mates so if we can take the best of both and be the same person wherever we are now we've got something now we're going to make the monks nervous and we're going to make the Pirates nervous but right but life gets Rich we live an integrated life that's what this is about where I'm not hiding the shadow anymore I don't have this unrealistic expectation of super spirituality or I am never going to you know I'm never gonna have do a wrong thing or have a wrong thought I've given up on that and I have found that as a pirate monk I am much more accessible and relatable and even more attractive to the people I want to be in relationship with uh I thought that talking about my Brokenness and my failures and my ongoing addiction because it's not gone I have a freedom today but it's a fragile Freedom it doesn't matter how far down the road of recovery go I I'm always the same distance from the ditch I thought that if that became public knowledge that I would be less useful in the kingdom and that people would not want to be around me the opposite has proven true my ability to be vulnerable has made me in many places at magnetic Ally and I have far have more friends and deeper friendships now that we're not all bright and shiny for a lot of people we're the safest people they know they know they can tell us anything and those conversations can go deep it's a it's a very rewarding way to live I love that I love that let's talk about I know I read you and Ally celebrating what 45 plus plus 4 years plus years and uh so so that's just an amazing uh just Milestone celebration uh just through just through your journey um so congratulations on that but uh talk to us a little bit about just this this life just maybe beyond that pivotal type of moment I know that you're never you know you're still close to you know uh a couple of bad decisions away from sure and what I found is that when it comes to to to to trying to avoid my pain pain and find an easier way through life. I have a lot of talent. I'm kind of Ambi addictive. So I had to face the fact, and finally did a year ago, that I was abusing alcohol. I... I could not call myself and would not call myself an alcoholic. However, I was leaning on alcohol way too much, and it was impoverishing my life. But thankfully, I didn't have to hide that, right? Right I did struggle with it privately for a long time it took me a while to actually surrender it but when I finally did the brothers were there uh and uh I don't think drinking's a sin and that's not you know we have we have guys in Samson to drink and guys who don't I used to I don't anymore life for me is better now that I don't yeah yeah yeah and I was I have been able to have that conversation and you know take that step in my journey uh I don't have to do that alone yeah yeah that's a wonderful thing so I don't know what's next uh I'm I'm also good at at the respectable addiction I can turn to work as a distraction for sure uh you know anything an area of my life where I can exert some control and maybe get some attention so that I don't have to attend to the real issues and this is why I'm grateful that I've got a wife who will tell me the truth and I've Got Friends in my life who will give me honest feedback who love me but are not overly impressed with me we're following Christ together and the conclusion I have reached after all these years is that Christianity properly understood is a team sport not an individual event amen amen I think it just takes us back to that word that you talked about at the beginning of the show just talked to our audience about just you know what do you you doing for d-stress management right and yeah yeah it could be all sorts of stuff so you're going to certain things for for distress um yeah uh is there what what do you do now for kind of like de-stress because obviously you know we all live you know sometimes chaotic lives we got hard decisions we have to make life is hard right choose your heart so uh de-stress management for you healthy yeah well it some of it we are embodied Spirits so some of this is somatic some of it is is as simple as making sure you get enough sleep getting some daily exercise right I take a a typically a one-hour walk every day but it's not I'm not just walking by myself I've got I walk with a guy whether he's with me physically or we're on the phone um and it's very much uh a mutually beneficial conversation so he tells me what's going on in his life I tell him what's going on in mine um I can articulating it with my friends helps me to get it Square in my own head so that when Ally ask me about it I'm a little clearer on where I am um I think that our stress multiplies when we internalize it when we won't if we don't acknowledge it that's deadly even when we do acknowledge it if we're only trying to deal with it ourselves eventually I believe we're going to be overwhelmed yeah so uh
it's relationships are key yeah absolutely key I love that and it's really just that genuine authentic relationships which it sounds like just the depth you've you've got some people and a relationship with Christ amen uh a time uh you know I I spend more time in unstructured prayer these days it's it's that it's that brief oh Lord God help me uh I H conversations that I have with him they're not very long but this understanding that I'm not alone in this world he's with me Christ lives within me uh but I have a relationship not just with Christ but with the body of Christ that is the big the game changer for me I was always willing to trust Christ before never willing to trust the body of Christ I thought that was a metaphor I didn't didn't think that was a real thing I didn't understand that Jesus is physically present on this planet in the lives of broken people but I know it's true today and the greatest act of surrender I make to Christ every day is to tell the truth to another member of the body of Christ that's where it gets real
BRETT: Amen! That's awesome last question and we'll wrap it up Nate thanks for being on the podcast today. By the way, motto... your motto "No Bull Brotherhood" can you talk about that?
NATE: Yeah yeah yeah. we're a noble Brotherhood so yeah it's it's honesty is everything so this is a it's a safe Samson is a safe place to tell the truth and uh speak the truth and love uh love for yourself and love for your brother but let's tell the truth um and yeah it all comes down to that doesn't it that's true that's awesome well sounds good uh well thanks for being on the podcast today Nate appreciate you appreciate you sharing your story uh make sure you guys check out Samson house.org is that the best place to find out the information actually SamsonSociety.org will get you to to Samson okay Samson house is the nonprofit organization that supports uh the growth and health of the Samson Society awesome uh Samson house can accept donations Samson Society has no dos or fees owns no property pays no Sal salaries incurs no debts
BRETT: So awesome! I love it I love it sounds good we'll put that in our show notes and our on our YouTube channel so guys make sure you check that out and yeah check out uh the society
NATE: if you are struggling uh you know I would just say now is the time Now's the Time to get to a group to a Recovery Group um to get honest with other guys that just know... know what you're going through so...
BRETT: That is awesome! Appreciate you, Nate! Thanks!
